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Doug Black
20-Jun-2007, 04:04 PM
Joseph Marton,
>
>> If you had just $300 to spend on Linux self-study materials, what would
>> you buy?
>
> Can you spend $396?
>
Maybe, but the PTBs and PHBs hereabouts are on a "we hate Novell" kick
lately (I'm guessing it's because Novell doesn't take them to lunch and
on golf outings etc the way M$ does), so I thought I'd try to downplay
that angle.

Jay Calderwood
20-Jun-2007, 04:05 PM
Doug Black > wrote:
> Joseph Marton,
>>
>>> If you had just $300 to spend on Linux self-study materials, what would
>>> you buy?
>>
>> Can you spend $396?
>>
> Maybe, but the PTBs and PHBs hereabouts are on a "we hate Novell" kick
> lately (I'm guessing it's because Novell doesn't take them to lunch and
> on golf outings etc the way M$ does), so I thought I'd try to downplay
> that angle.
>

I want MS to take me to golf and lunch.

--
Jay Calderwood
http://jaycalderwood.blogspot.com

Quote: "I'm alive... I think... Then again can it get any worse? Yes it
can...
There is this one place...really down south that starts with an 'H' and ends
with an 'L' that is really HOT..."

Doug Black
20-Jun-2007, 04:12 PM
Jay,
>
> I want MS to take me to golf and lunch.
>
Just get a position *as a decisionmaker* with a large organization
that's not currently running Windows as its primary file&print environment.

Jay Calderwood
20-Jun-2007, 04:40 PM
Doug Black > wrote:
> Jay,
>>
>> I want MS to take me to golf and lunch.
>>
> Just get a position *as a decisionmaker* with a large organization
> that's not currently running Windows as its primary file&print environment.

Oh. *sigh*

--
Jay Calderwood
http://jaycalderwood.blogspot.com

Quote: "I'm alive... I think... Then again can it get any worse? Yes it
can...
There is this one place...really down south that starts with an 'H' and ends
with an 'L' that is really HOT..."

Joseph Marton
20-Jun-2007, 04:57 PM
On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 15:05:15 +0000, Jay Calderwood wrote:

> I want MS to take me to golf and lunch.

I would love for M$ to offer to take me to golf and lunch. I'd tell them
just where they can stick that golf & lunch outing...

--
Joe
"Mostly me, mostly you."

Joseph Marton
20-Jun-2007, 04:58 PM
On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 15:04:40 +0000, Doug Black wrote:

> Maybe, but the PTBs and PHBs hereabouts are on a "we hate Novell" kick
> lately (I'm guessing it's because Novell doesn't take them to lunch and on
> golf outings etc the way M$ does), so I thought I'd try to downplay that
> angle.

Well, do you currently run any Linux? If so, what flavor? If you're
running SUSE it doesn't make sense to buy a Red Hat book, nor does it make
sense to buy a SUSE book if you're running Red Hat.

--
Joe
"Mostly me, mostly you."

Jay Calderwood
20-Jun-2007, 04:58 PM
Joseph Marton wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 15:05:15 +0000, Jay Calderwood wrote:
>
>> I want MS to take me to golf and lunch.
>
> I would love for M$ to offer to take me to golf and lunch. I'd tell them
> just where they can stick that golf & lunch outing...
>

You are telling Microsoft where to stick something.

Confirm or Deny?

--
Jay Calderwood
http://jaycalderwood.blogspot.com

Quote: "I'm alive... I think... Then again can it get any worse? Yes it
can...
There is this one place...really down south that starts with an 'H' and ends
with an 'L' that is really HOT..."

Jay Calderwood
20-Jun-2007, 04:59 PM
Joseph Marton wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 15:04:40 +0000, Doug Black wrote:
>
>> Maybe, but the PTBs and PHBs hereabouts are on a "we hate Novell" kick
>> lately (I'm guessing it's because Novell doesn't take them to lunch and on
>> golf outings etc the way M$ does), so I thought I'd try to downplay that
>> angle.
>
> Well, do you currently run any Linux? If so, what flavor? If you're
> running SUSE it doesn't make sense to buy a Red Hat book, nor does it make
> sense to buy a SUSE book if you're running Red Hat.
>

I like strawberry linux with some hot fudge drizzled on top...

--
Jay Calderwood
http://jaycalderwood.blogspot.com

Quote: "I'm alive... I think... Then again can it get any worse? Yes it
can...
There is this one place...really down south that starts with an 'H' and ends
with an 'L' that is really HOT..."

Doug Black
20-Jun-2007, 05:40 PM
Joseph,
>
> Well, do you currently run any Linux? If so, what flavor? If you're
> running SUSE it doesn't make sense to buy a Red Hat book, nor does it make
> sense to buy a SUSE book if you're running Red Hat.
>
Currently, the only production Linux box I know of is our Internet mail
gateway*, which runs Postfix. I believe it's Red Hat. We may well have
a few SuSE boxes though, if I get my way.


*if Exchange is so all-fired great, why does it need a Linux box to
connect to the Interweb?

Joseph Marton
20-Jun-2007, 05:46 PM
On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 15:58:39 +0000, Jay Calderwood wrote:

> You are telling Microsoft where to stick something.
>
> Confirm or Deny?

Confirm baby.

--
Joe
"Mostly me, mostly you."

Joseph Marton
20-Jun-2007, 05:48 PM
On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 16:40:48 +0000, Doug Black wrote:

> Currently, the only production Linux box I know of is our Internet mail
> gateway*, which runs Postfix. I believe it's Red Hat. We may well have a
> few SuSE boxes though, if I get my way.

Well, if going forward you plan on using SLES, then it's silly to buy a
Red Hat book. I mean would you go to Nortel training to learn how to use
a Cisco switch?

--
Joe
"Mostly me, mostly you."

Jay Calderwood
20-Jun-2007, 05:54 PM
Joseph Marton,

> Confirm baby.
>

DENY DENY DENY NOT FOR A LONG TIME!!!!!!!


--
Jay Calderwood
http://jaycalderwood.blogspot.com

Quote: "I'm alive... I think... Then again can it get any worse? Yes it
can...
There is this one place...really down south that starts with an 'H' and ends
with an 'L' that is really HOT..."

unsigned@ @digerati.us
20-Jun-2007, 06:10 PM
Come on, you know its not that extreme. Its more like buying a windows
vista book to learn XP. They are going to be close, but not 100%. I
spent years working on RedHat and the switch to SuSE was not really an
issue.

If he can get RedHat training approved and not SuSE training, then by
all means he should get what he can and not walk away completely.
Discussing self-paced training is not the time to have a distro argument.

Joseph Marton wrote:
> Well, if going forward you plan on using SLES, then it's silly to buy a
> Red Hat book. I mean would you go to Nortel training to learn how to use
> a Cisco switch?
>

Joseph Marton
20-Jun-2007, 06:30 PM
On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 17:10:55 +0000, unsigned wrote:

> Come on, you know its not that extreme. Its more like buying a windows
> vista book to learn XP.

Ok, I kind of exaggerated. But still, if you're about to deploy a bunch
of Vista PCs and get rid of XP it's still silly to buy an XP training book.

> If he can get RedHat training approved and not SuSE training, then by all
> means he should get what he can and not walk away completely.

No, what he needs to do is tell them "it's Linux training." Why does
upper management need to know the distro? They just need to know it's
Linux, while he chooses training for the specific distro he's preparing to
implement. In the XP/Vista example above, you would simply tell
management it's Windows training. Boom, end of story.

--
Joe
"Mostly me, mostly you."

Lee Garner
21-Jun-2007, 02:20 AM
Joseph Marton wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 15:04:40 +0000, Doug Black wrote:
>
>> Maybe, but the PTBs and PHBs hereabouts are on a "we hate Novell" kick
>> lately (I'm guessing it's because Novell doesn't take them to lunch and on
>> golf outings etc the way M$ does), so I thought I'd try to downplay that
>> angle.
>
> Well, do you currently run any Linux? If so, what flavor? If you're
> running SUSE it doesn't make sense to buy a Red Hat book, nor does it make
> sense to buy a SUSE book if you're running Red Hat.
>

I disagree. SUSE has come a long way toward being similar to RH- init
directories in the same place, SLES now has the "service" command.
Plus, it's always been based on the RedHat Package Manager.

There are differences, but far fewer than there used to be in the Suse
versions 6-8 or so.

Jim Henderson
21-Jun-2007, 02:45 AM
On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 01:20:54 +0000, Lee Garner wrote:

> Plus,
> it's always been based on the RedHat Package Manager.

Actually, that's not entirely true - SuSE was originally based on
Slackware which uses tarballs for package distribution.

Jim

Lee Garner
21-Jun-2007, 02:51 AM
Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 01:20:54 +0000, Lee Garner wrote:
>
>> Plus,
>> it's always been based on the RedHat Package Manager.
>
> Actually, that's not entirely true - SuSE was originally based on
> Slackware which uses tarballs for package distribution.
>
> Jim
Point taken. I should have said "as long as I can remember". My first
Suse version was 6.1 or 6.3. I think they were RPM-based, but I can
really only remember clearly back to v8 before I went RedHat.

Jim Henderson
21-Jun-2007, 03:11 AM
On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 01:51:33 +0000, Lee Garner wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 01:20:54 +0000, Lee Garner wrote:
>>
>>> Plus,
>>> it's always been based on the RedHat Package Manager.
>>
>> Actually, that's not entirely true - SuSE was originally based on
>> Slackware which uses tarballs for package distribution.
>>
>> Jim
> Point taken. I should have said "as long as I can remember". My first
> Suse version was 6.1 or 6.3. I think they were RPM-based, but I can
> really only remember clearly back to v8 before I went RedHat.

I did my move the other way - RH until 9, then to SUSE 9.2. :-)

Jim

Joseph Marton
21-Jun-2007, 01:21 PM
On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 01:20:54 +0000, Lee Garner wrote:

> I disagree. SUSE has come a long way toward being similar to RH- init
> directories in the same place, SLES now has the "service" command. Plus,
> it's always been based on the RedHat Package Manager.

I'm not saying Red Hat doesn't have similarities to SUSE. But there are
also differences. Windows 2000 Server is similar to Windows 2003 Server.
However, if I was about to roll out 2003 boxes and needed some training
materials I wouldn't go out and buy 2000 training. Why buy training for
something "similar" when you can buy training for the actual product you
are going to implement?

--
Joe
"Mostly me, mostly you."

Blinky Bill
21-Jun-2007, 01:29 PM
Joseph Marton wrote:

> Why buy training for
> something "similar" when you can buy training for the actual product
> you are going to implement?

Don't use logic man, you will mess everything up :-)


--

Joseph Marton
21-Jun-2007, 02:04 PM
On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 12:29:18 +0000, Blinky Bill wrote:

> Don't use logic man, you will mess everything up :-)

Guess I should remember that logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end.

--
Joe
"Mostly me, mostly you."

Blinky Bill
21-Jun-2007, 02:06 PM
Joseph Marton wrote:

> On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 12:29:18 +0000, Blinky Bill wrote:
>
> > Don't use logic man, you will mess everything up :-)
>
> Guess I should remember that logic is the beginning of wisdom, not
> the end.

You are making my head hurt :-)

--

Brent Wolfe
21-Jun-2007, 04:23 PM
That's not because of logic, it's because you're walkin' around upside
down.....

;-}

--
Brent

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving
safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in
sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thoroughly used
up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"


"Blinky Bill" <koala@gumtree.com.au> wrote in message
news:oJuei.380$on5.362@prv-forum2.provo.novell.com...
> Joseph Marton wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 12:29:18 +0000, Blinky Bill wrote:
>>
>> > Don't use logic man, you will mess everything up :-)
>>
>> Guess I should remember that logic is the beginning of wisdom, not
>> the end.
>
> You are making my head hurt :-)
>
> --
>

Jay Calderwood
21-Jun-2007, 04:28 PM
Brent Wolfe wrote:
> That's not because of logic, it's because you're walkin' around upside
> down.....
>
> ;-}
>

They are not all in Australia are they??

--
Jay Calderwood
http://jaycalderwood.blogspot.com

Quote: "I'm alive... I think... Then again can it get any worse? Yes it
can...
There is this one place...really down south that starts with an 'H' and ends
with an 'L' that is really HOT..."

Brent Wolfe
21-Jun-2007, 05:04 PM
Blinky is..........

--
Brent

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving
safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in
sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thoroughly used
up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"


"Jay Calderwood" <jeromecalderwood@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:HOwei.474$on5.404@prv-forum2.provo.novell.com...
> Brent Wolfe wrote:
>> That's not because of logic, it's because you're walkin' around upside
>> down.....
>>
>> ;-}
>>
>
> They are not all in Australia are they??
>
> --
> Jay Calderwood
> http://jaycalderwood.blogspot.com
>
> Quote: "I'm alive... I think... Then again can it get any worse? Yes it
> can...
> There is this one place...really down south that starts with an 'H' and
> ends
> with an 'L' that is really HOT..."

Jay Calderwood
21-Jun-2007, 05:26 PM
Brent Wolfe wrote:
> Blinky is..........
>
I know... and he's always upside down :-)

--
Jay Calderwood
http://jaycalderwood.blogspot.com

Quote: "I'm alive... I think... Then again can it get any worse? Yes it
can...
There is this one place...really down south that starts with an 'H' and ends
with an 'L' that is really HOT..."

Lee Garner
22-Jun-2007, 02:42 AM
Joseph Marton wrote:
> I'm not saying Red Hat doesn't have similarities to SUSE. But there are
> also differences. Windows 2000 Server is similar to Windows 2003 Server.
> However, if I was about to roll out 2003 boxes and needed some training
> materials I wouldn't go out and buy 2000 training. Why buy training for
> something "similar" when you can buy training for the actual product you
> are going to implement?
>

Well, if you're only going to implement Novell's Linux, then it would
make more sense to buy training for that type. If you're goal is to
"learn Linux", then I'd look into training for Linux. RedHat is going
to provide sufficient training, except for the vendor-specific parts.

I still disagree with the statement that "If you're
running SUSE it doesn't make sense to buy a Red Hat book,..." A
well-rounded training program, self-study or otherwise, is better than
narrowly focusing on a single vendor's product line.

Blinky Bill
22-Jun-2007, 04:09 AM
Brent Wolfe wrote:

> That's not because of logic, it's because you're walkin' around
> upside down.....
>
> ;-}

Darn, I knew there was something wrong :-)

--

Joseph Marton
22-Jun-2007, 02:48 PM
On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 01:42:04 +0000, Lee Garner wrote:

> I still disagree with the statement that "If you're running SUSE it
> doesn't make sense to buy a Red Hat book,..." A well-rounded training
> program, self-study or otherwise, is better than narrowly focusing on a
> single vendor's product line.

With Linux, any vendor's training materials is going to give you info that
you can use on any distro. That's the beauty of Linux. So yes I say if
you're going to put in a specific flavor of Linux, get materials geared
toward that flavor. You'll have the vendor-specific stuff you need, yet
still have enough basic knowledge that you could sit at a machine running
any distro and get some basic stuff done.

--
Joe Marton
Novell Support Forum SysOp
Novell does not officially monitor these forums!

Bob Crandell
22-Jun-2007, 03:07 PM
On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 01:45:17 +0000, Jim Henderson wrote:

> Actually, that's not entirely true - SuSE was originally based on
> Slackware which uses tarballs for package distribution.
So that's why I like it so much. Still, I miss Slackware.

Jim Henderson
22-Jun-2007, 03:22 PM
On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 14:07:17 +0000, Bob Crandell wrote:

> On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 01:45:17 +0000, Jim Henderson wrote:
>
>> Actually, that's not entirely true - SuSE was originally based on
>> Slackware which uses tarballs for package distribution.
> So that's why I like it so much. Still, I miss Slackware.

Slack is still out there, version 10.something is current. :)

Jim

Bob Crandell
22-Jun-2007, 03:32 PM
On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 14:22:38 +0000, Jim Henderson wrote:

> Slack is still out there, version 10.something is current. :)
>
> Jim
11.0 was released 10-2-06
I would have stuck with it if I could figure out how to install eDir,
Groupwise and Zenworks.

Jim Henderson
22-Jun-2007, 03:54 PM
On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 14:32:02 +0000, Bob Crandell wrote:

> On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 14:22:38 +0000, Jim Henderson wrote:
>
>> Slack is still out there, version 10.something is current. :)
>>
>> Jim
> 11.0 was released 10-2-06
> I would have stuck with it if I could figure out how to install eDir,
> Groupwise and Zenworks.

Wow, I somehow missed the 11.0 release (and I've probably got it on a
DVD, too).

Jim