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Stevo
28-Jun-2007, 03:18 PM
http://www.wkyc.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=68227

Wallgames.com
28-Jun-2007, 04:02 PM
Another approach:
http://www.physorg.com/news98556080.html


"Stevo" <steveSPAM@LESSccgov.net> wrote in message
news:8rPgi.536$8i6.22@prv-forum2.provo.novell.com...
> http://www.wkyc.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=68227
>

Blinky Bill
29-Jun-2007, 11:05 AM
Stevo wrote:

> http://www.wkyc.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=68227

cool, if it is true and can be commercially viable

--

Tim Wohlford
29-Jun-2007, 02:00 PM
Uh, no.

The hoax of a "water burning car" has been around for years, including a
video on YouTube. They guy who invented it died suddenly, which of course
has kept the conspiracy theorists going ever since. However, before he
died, the inventor lost a court case where investors alleged that they were
defrauded.

Getting hydrogen and oxygen out of salt water is no big thing. I learned
how to do that in the 8th grade. Some of my fraternity brothers actually
did enough of it to fill a weather balloon in their "Project Hindenberg".

The problem is that it takes, by far, more energy to separate the hydrogen
and oxygen than one gets when they burn it.

Worse yet, hydrogen cannot be stored in metal containers, meaning that it
would be stored in composite "fiberglass" (or carbon fiber) tanks. Imagine
a car with a bunch of compressed hydrogen in a container that, when
punctured, fails dramtically.....

There is a long list of problems with hydrogen as a fuel that must be
overcome before it's ready for prime time.

Tim Wohlford


"Stevo" <steveSPAM@LESSccgov.net> wrote in message
news:8rPgi.536$8i6.22@prv-forum2.provo.novell.com...
> http://www.wkyc.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=68227
>

Steve B
29-Jun-2007, 02:47 PM
actually, it did exist and was patented with patent #2,006,676

Patented July 2, 1935
United States Patent Office
2,006,676
Electrolytic Carburetor
Charles H. Garrett, Dallas, Texas
Application July 1, 1932, Serial No. 620,364
Renewed November 30, 1934
5 Claims (Cl. 204-5)

but, yeah - lots of problems go along with it

http://www.keelynet.com/energy/garrett.htm

the linked article shows the patent, and sketches of the device and goes
into detail about how hard/dangerous it is to use hydrogen as fuel

Marcel Cox
29-Jun-2007, 04:44 PM
Blinky Bill wrote:

>cool, if it is true and can be commercially viable

It's probably true but very inefficient. The guy uses radio waves to
separate water into hydrogen and Oxygen. He probably needs more
electricity to do this than using other methods. Also, if he already has
the electricity, better use an electrical engine than first use the
electricity to create hydrogen and then burn it again.

All in all, the hydrogen technology is not a solution to *create* energy,
but rather a clean and "efficient" way to store and transport energy. The
problem is that the storage of hydrogen is currently very difficult and
dangerous.

--
Marcel Cox (using XanaNews 1.18.1.6)

dan c.
29-Jun-2007, 06:06 PM
Yeah, hydrogen fusion reactions can be very hazardous to your health,
and you have to do something with all the helium that results. ;)

Marcel Cox wrote:
>
> It's probably true but very inefficient. The guy uses radio waves to
> separate water into hydrogen and Oxygen. He probably needs more
> electricity to do this than using other methods. Also, if he already has
> the electricity, better use an electrical engine than first use the
> electricity to create hydrogen and then burn it again.
>
> All in all, the hydrogen technology is not a solution to *create*
> energy, but rather a clean and "efficient" way to store and transport
> energy. The problem is that the storage of hydrogen is currently very
> difficult and dangerous.
>

Tim Wohlford
30-Jun-2007, 04:19 AM
I was referring to
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIgOn1kRw5s&mode=related&search=

It's fairly simple to re-calibrate a propane setup for use with hydrogen.
Virtually all of the auto makers have put together a hydrogen car, as have
any number of personality-disordered contankerous tinkerers (I have the tee
shirt and membership card in that club).

However, the problems noted in your link still exist. The "Holy Grail" is a
car where water goes in the tank, and water comes out of the tailpipe, and
"magic" happens in between. However, the energy required under current
technologies to obtain hydrogen is greater than that produced by the
combustion. And, steel doesn't do so well with hydrogen gas, so one would
expect lots of durability problems, as well as the occasional explosion when
the fiberglass storage tanks are punctured.

Granted, no one is spending much money on alternative technology, at least
compared to good old petrol-based internal combustion technology. For
instance, last year half a billion dollars (US) was spent on R&D on petrol
motors -- in Formula 1 alone. Petrol motors have been refined for some 100
years, with the equivelent of billions of dollars going into R&D each year.
It will take a long time, and a lot of money, to find a replacement for gas
motors that are remotely as good as our current motors.

Tim






"Steve B" <cns965+nospam@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:F38hi.1094$8i6.882@prv-forum2.provo.novell.com...
> actually, it did exist and was patented with patent #2,006,676
>
> Patented July 2, 1935
> United States Patent Office
> 2,006,676
> Electrolytic Carburetor
> Charles H. Garrett, Dallas, Texas
> Application July 1, 1932, Serial No. 620,364
> Renewed November 30, 1934
> 5 Claims (Cl. 204-5)
>
> but, yeah - lots of problems go along with it
>
> http://www.keelynet.com/energy/garrett.htm
>
> the linked article shows the patent, and sketches of the device and goes
> into detail about how hard/dangerous it is to use hydrogen as fuel

Bob Crandell
05-Jul-2007, 04:19 AM
On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 14:18:44 +0000, Stevo wrote:

> http://www.wkyc.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=68227

And this:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=660759158947266385

I guess this isn't new technology. I wonder what the oil companies are
going to do about it?

Marcel Cox
05-Jul-2007, 09:00 AM
Bob Crandell wrote:

>And this:
>http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=660759158947266385
>
>I guess this isn't new technology. I wonder what the oil companies are
>going to do about it?

Nothing. This is a ice demonstration of a device that probably through
electrolysis or some similar process produces HHO gas. As you can clearly
see, the box uses eltrecricity to produce the gas. The process does not
magically create energy out of water, but is just a device to produce a
replacement for acetylene technology.

See the following for details:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HHO

--
Marcel Cox
http://support.novell.com/forums

Marcel Cox
05-Jul-2007, 09:12 AM
Why not mention the following:

http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/04/steorns-orbo-free-energy-machine-demonstrated-tomorrow/

--
Marcel Cox
http://support.novell.com/forums

Chupacabra
05-Jul-2007, 04:03 PM
"Marcel Cox" <cimetmc@myrealbox.com> wrote in message
news:f6i8us$t48$1@linux.cie.etat.lu...

> Why not mention the following:
>
> http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/04/steorns-orbo-free-energy-machine-demonstrated-tomorrow/

Because like every other free energy device, it's a hoax? :-)

Bob Crandell
08-Jul-2007, 06:07 PM
On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 08:00:52 +0000, Marcel Cox wrote:

> Bob Crandell wrote:
>
>>And this:
>>http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=660759158947266385
>>
>>I guess this isn't new technology. I wonder what the oil companies are
>>going to do about it?
>
> Nothing. This is a ice demonstration of a device that probably through
At the end of the video is a car without an extension cord running on HHO.
I found a few other videos showing various vehicles running on HHO. How
did they do that?

Marcel Cox
09-Jul-2007, 07:25 AM
Bob Crandell wrote:

>At the end of the video is a car without an extension cord running on HHO.
>I found a few other videos showing various vehicles running on HHO. How
>did they do that?

Well, if you follow the link that goes with the video, you can get to the
description of the generator:

http://www.hytechapps.com/aquygen/generator

Key phrase:

<<<<<<<<<<<<
The H2O 1500 Aquygen™ Gas Generator runs on water and electricity only!
>>>>>>>>>>>>

So it's clear they use electricity as energy source.

As for using HHO in cars, it's not exactly clear what they are doing.
However it is clear that they aren't creating energy out of nothing.
From the web site:

http://www.hytechapps.com/aquygen/hhos

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
20-30% increase in fuel efficiency with only minor vehicle modifications.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

So in essence, you get increased efficiency, but no miracles.

--
Marcel Cox
http://support.novell.com/forums