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Nuri Inuki
04-Jul-2007, 01:30 PM
Anybody know where I can find documentation online stating that Access
databases should not be used for production line usage? Or in
environments that requires heavy access?

Reason I'm asking is because my company is currently using an Access
database for their production line software and it's causing them tons
of problem. I keep telling them that Access isn't designed for this but
they just won't have it. So I need to prove my case now.

Any help is greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Howard

Anders Gustafsson
04-Jul-2007, 01:49 PM
Nuri Inuki,
> Anybody know where I can find documentation online stating that Access
> databases should not be used for production line usage? Or in
> environments that requires heavy access?

Tried Googling? ;) IMHO, Access databases work reasonably well when you
have 1-2 users and not many updates per period of time.

- Anders Gustafsson, Engineer, CNE6, ASE
NSC Volunteer Sysop
Pedago, The Aaland Islands (N60 E20)

Novell does not monitor these forums officially.
Enhancement requests for all Novell products may be made at
http://support.novell.com/enhancement

Using VA 5.51 build 315 on Windows 2000 build 2600

Nuri Inuki
04-Jul-2007, 02:43 PM
Anders Gustafsson wrote:
> Nuri Inuki,
>> Anybody know where I can find documentation online stating that Access
>> databases should not be used for production line usage? Or in
>> environments that requires heavy access?
>
> Tried Googling? ;) IMHO, Access databases work reasonably well when you
> have 1-2 users and not many updates per period of time.
>
> - Anders Gustafsson, Engineer, CNE6, ASE
> NSC Volunteer Sysop
> Pedago, The Aaland Islands (N60 E20)
>
> Novell does not monitor these forums officially.
> Enhancement requests for all Novell products may be made at
> http://support.novell.com/enhancement
>
> Using VA 5.51 build 315 on Windows 2000 build 2600
>
Indeed. But we currently have at least 8 users querying/updating it 2 to
3 times a second every single minute of the day...save meal time.

I tried googling and found some stuff, but I just can't seem to get the
right keywords in to get what I want exactly. I pretty much want
something official to say that it wasn't meant to be accessed that much.

*sigh*

brain
04-Jul-2007, 03:20 PM
Its pretty ironic when a company can't use their own in house problems
as proof.

--
brain, not brain


Nuri Inuki scrivi:

> Anybody know where I can find documentation online stating that
> Access databases should not be used for production line usage? Or in
> environments that requires heavy access?
>
> Reason I'm asking is because my company is currently using an Access
> database for their production line software and it's causing them
> tons of problem. I keep telling them that Access isn't designed for
> this but they just won't have it. So I need to prove my case now.
>
> Any help is greatly appreciated. Thank you.
>
> Howard

Wallgames.com
04-Jul-2007, 03:29 PM
Perhaps you could look at comparisons between heavy-duty database managers
and light-duty database programs? Try something like entering "compare
performance oracle and microsoft access" in Google.

-Bob Carroll


"Nuri Inuki" <> wrote in message
news:fuNii.2764$8i6.210@prv-forum2.provo.novell.com...
> Anders Gustafsson wrote:
>> Nuri Inuki,
>>> Anybody know where I can find documentation online stating that Access
>>> databases should not be used for production line usage? Or in
>>> environments that requires heavy access?
>>
>> Tried Googling? ;) IMHO, Access databases work reasonably well when you
>> have 1-2 users and not many updates per period of time.
>>
>> - Anders Gustafsson, Engineer, CNE6, ASE
>> NSC Volunteer Sysop
>> Pedago, The Aaland Islands (N60 E20)
>>
>> Novell does not monitor these forums officially.
>> Enhancement requests for all Novell products may be made at
>> http://support.novell.com/enhancement
>>
>> Using VA 5.51 build 315 on Windows 2000 build 2600
>>
> Indeed. But we currently have at least 8 users querying/updating it 2 to 3
> times a second every single minute of the day...save meal time.
>
> I tried googling and found some stuff, but I just can't seem to get the
> right keywords in to get what I want exactly. I pretty much want something
> official to say that it wasn't meant to be accessed that much.
>
> *sigh*

Anders Gustafsson
04-Jul-2007, 03:32 PM
http://simonwillison.net/2002/Jul/31/reasonsNotToUseAccess/

- Anders Gustafsson, Engineer, CNE6, ASE
NSC Volunteer Sysop
Pedago, The Aaland Islands (N60 E20)

Novell does not monitor these forums officially.
Enhancement requests for all Novell products may be made at
http://support.novell.com/enhancement

Using VA 5.51 build 315 on Windows 2000 build 2600

Lee Garner
04-Jul-2007, 04:16 PM
I just found this in a newsgroup:

> Reason I'm asking is because my company is currently using an Access
> database for their production line software and it's causing them tons
> of problem. I keep telling them that Access isn't designed for this but
> they just won't have it. So I need to prove my case now.
>


:)

I agree with Brain. If they see the problems, why do they need
documentation to say as much? I'd trust my own experience with it much
more that the writing of some blogger.

brain
04-Jul-2007, 05:28 PM
Someone agrees with me? I think I will forward this to my girlfriend.

--
brain, not brain


Lee Garner scrivi:

> I just found this in a newsgroup:
>
> > Reason I'm asking is because my company is currently using an
> > Access database for their production line software and it's
> > causing them tons of problem. I keep telling them that Access
> > isn't designed for this but they just won't have it. So I need to
> > prove my case now.
> >
>
>
> :)
>
> I agree with Brain. If they see the problems, why do they need
> documentation to say as much? I'd trust my own experience with it
> much more that the writing of some blogger.

Brad Averbeck
04-Jul-2007, 11:26 PM
brain wrote:
> Someone agrees with me? I think I will forward this to my girlfriend.
>
It doesn't matter, to her you're still wrong! :)

Brad

roman modic
04-Jul-2007, 11:26 PM
Hello!

"Nuri Inuki" <nuri.inuki@noway.gmail.com> wrote in message news:kpMii.2739$8i6.1350@prv-forum2.provo.novell.com...
> Anybody know where I can find documentation online stating that Access databases should not be used for production line usage? Or
> in environments that requires heavy access?
>

Is opportunistic locking disabled?
Netware server: http://www.granite.ab.ca/access/corruption/causesoplocks.htm
NT server: http://www.granite.ab.ca/access/corruption/causesoplocks.htm
Samba server: http://www.drouillard.ca/Tips&Tricks/Samba/Oplocks.htm


Samba and Linux is a great combination for providing a reliable fast file server
on a network. Whether you are using Microsoft Access, FoxPro, Quickbooks
or CA-Clipper / xHarbour, with any multi-user fileserver database application
there are configurations done both on the server and the client systems for this
to work reliably. The main settings to look for when setting up the Samba server
to host a database application are: lock spin, and oplocks.


More info:
http://www.superbase.com/services_tech_support_oplocks.htm
http://wiki.novell.com/index.php/OpLocks_on_NetWare
http://www.witzendcs.co.uk/html/nt_networking.html
http://www.dataaccess.com/whitepapers/IntegratingDataFlexWithNetware.htm
http://www.dataaccess.com/whitepapers/opportunlockingreadcaching.html
http://software4advisors.com/Documents/Important%20Issues%20Concerning%20Sharing%20an%20A CT.htm
http://www.intersoft.co.nz/support_technicalbulletins/tsb1019.htm
http://www.classicresystems.com/network_performance.htm
----
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/889588
----
http://samba.org/samba/docs/man/Samba-Guide/appendix.html#ch12dblck
http://samba.org/samba/docs/man/Samba-HOWTO-Collection/locking.html
http://www.oregontechsupport.com/samba/?cat=3

I recommend to:
1. disable oplocks
2. run netsafe on each PC:
http://www.datafastsoftware.com/netsafeinfo.htm
3. run redrtest on each PC:
http://www.support.tabs3.com/main/R10104.htm

or replace Access with Advantage Database Server, for example ...
http://www.advantagedatabase.com/

Cheers, Roman

Susan
05-Jul-2007, 12:04 AM
Howard:

Maybe they'll believe Wikipedia, if they don't believe their own
experience:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Access

I particularly liked the "competing software" list. : )

Susan
Novell Community Chat Moderator

http://support.novell.com/forums/faq_rules.html
http://www.ncci.org NCCIrregulars Web Site

Nuri Inuki
05-Jul-2007, 11:58 AM
brain wrote:
> Its pretty ironic when a company can't use their own in house problems
> as proof.
>
Quite indeedie. They just won't believe~!

Nuri Inuki
05-Jul-2007, 11:59 AM
Brad Averbeck wrote:
> brain wrote:
>> Someone agrees with me? I think I will forward this to my girlfriend.
>>
> It doesn't matter, to her you're still wrong! :)
>
> Brad
Yep. You'll never be right. :)

Nuri Inuki
05-Jul-2007, 12:00 PM
roman modic wrote:
> Hello!
>
> "Nuri Inuki" <nuri.inuki@noway.gmail.com> wrote in message news:kpMii.2739$8i6.1350@prv-forum2.provo.novell.com...
>> Anybody know where I can find documentation online stating that Access databases should not be used for production line usage? Or
>> in environments that requires heavy access?
>>
>
> Is opportunistic locking disabled?
> Netware server: http://www.granite.ab.ca/access/corruption/causesoplocks.htm
> NT server: http://www.granite.ab.ca/access/corruption/causesoplocks.htm
> Samba server: http://www.drouillard.ca/Tips&Tricks/Samba/Oplocks.htm
>

> Samba and Linux is a great combination for providing a reliable fast file server
> on a network. Whether you are using Microsoft Access, FoxPro, Quickbooks
> or CA-Clipper / xHarbour, with any multi-user fileserver database application
> there are configurations done both on the server and the client systems for this
> to work reliably. The main settings to look for when setting up the Samba server
> to host a database application are: lock spin, and oplocks.
>
>
> More info:
> http://www.superbase.com/services_tech_support_oplocks.htm
> http://wiki.novell.com/index.php/OpLocks_on_NetWare
> http://www.witzendcs.co.uk/html/nt_networking.html
> http://www.dataaccess.com/whitepapers/IntegratingDataFlexWithNetware.htm
> http://www.dataaccess.com/whitepapers/opportunlockingreadcaching.html
> http://software4advisors.com/Documents/Important%20Issues%20Concerning%20Sharing%20an%20A CT.htm
> http://www.intersoft.co.nz/support_technicalbulletins/tsb1019.htm
> http://www.classicresystems.com/network_performance.htm
> ----
> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/889588
> ----
> http://samba.org/samba/docs/man/Samba-Guide/appendix.html#ch12dblck
> http://samba.org/samba/docs/man/Samba-HOWTO-Collection/locking.html
> http://www.oregontechsupport.com/samba/?cat=3
>
> I recommend to:
> 1. disable oplocks
> 2. run netsafe on each PC:
> http://www.datafastsoftware.com/netsafeinfo.htm
> 3. run redrtest on each PC:
> http://www.support.tabs3.com/main/R10104.htm
>
> or replace Access with Advantage Database Server, for example ...
> http://www.advantagedatabase.com/
>
> Cheers, Roman
>
>
Wow, all those links. Man, it's going to take me some time to go
through. But yes, Op Locks Level 2 are disabled. I'm wondering about
Level 1 Op Locks as well...hum....

Thanks for all the links. :)

Nuri Inuki
05-Jul-2007, 12:01 PM
Susan wrote:
> Howard:
>
> Maybe they'll believe Wikipedia, if they don't believe their own
> experience:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Access
>
> I particularly liked the "competing software" list. : )
>
> Susan
> Novell Community Chat Moderator
>
> http://support.novell.com/forums/faq_rules.html
> http://www.ncci.org NCCIrregulars Web Site
>
Thanks Susan. I'll flip through that and take more notes. :)

Nuri Inuki
05-Jul-2007, 12:02 PM
Nuri Inuki wrote:
> Anybody know where I can find documentation online stating that Access
> databases should not be used for production line usage? Or in
> environments that requires heavy access?
>
> Reason I'm asking is because my company is currently using an Access
> database for their production line software and it's causing them tons
> of problem. I keep telling them that Access isn't designed for this but
> they just won't have it. So I need to prove my case now.
>
> Any help is greatly appreciated. Thank you.
>
> Howard
If anyone's interested, I also found a white paper on Microsoft's
website that talks about why one should move to SQL over Access.

Here's the link:
http://download.microsoft.com/download/5/d/0/5d026b60-e4be-42fc-a250-2d75c49172bc/when_to_Migrate_from_Access.doc

Lee Garner
06-Jul-2007, 06:47 AM
brain wrote:
> Someone agrees with me? I think I will forward this to my girlfriend.
>

Sorry, but the simple fact that a male agrees with you only makes you
*more* wrong in the eyes of the female. Nice try, though.

roman modic
06-Jul-2007, 04:42 PM
"Lee Garner" <lee.spam@leegarner.com> wrote in message news:UHkji.3385$8i6.2457@prv-forum2.provo.novell.com...
> brain wrote:
>> Someone agrees with me? I think I will forward this to my girlfriend.
>>
>
> Sorry, but the simple fact that a male agrees with you only makes you *more* wrong in the eyes of the female. Nice try, though.

LOL