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Joseph Marton
16-Jul-2007, 06:20 PM
This is messed up.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070715/D8QD02LO0.html

--
Joe
"Mostly me, mostly you."

Beth Cole
16-Jul-2007, 07:11 PM
Joseph Marton wrote:
> This is messed up.
>
> http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070715/D8QD02LO0.html

Shouldn't the subject line be "Child neglect & abuse land couple in jail?"

The video game wasn't the problem. Their own stupidity was.


--
Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you
nothing. It was here first. ~Mark Twain

Joseph Marton
16-Jul-2007, 07:20 PM
On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 18:11:16 +0000, Beth Cole wrote:

> Shouldn't the subject line be "Child neglect & abuse land couple in jail?"

Yeah but you see that headline all the time. Gotta find a way to
sensationalize it.

> The video game wasn't the problem. Their own stupidity was.

It's the same problem that much of American society has today. "It's not
my fault." It's always the fault of someone/something else. No one wants
to take responsibility for one's actions.

--
Joe
"Mostly me, mostly you."

Mary Matthews
16-Jul-2007, 08:00 PM
You're right about that one...makes you wonder why they had the kids at
all. If nothing else, they could have put them up for an open adoption
where all the costs were covered and they may have made a few bucks.

Joseph Marton
16-Jul-2007, 08:05 PM
On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 19:00:10 +0000, Mary Matthews wrote:

> You're right about that one...makes you wonder why they had the kids at
> all.

My wife and I have a difficult enough time remembering to feed our cats.
I think the next step up the responsibility ladder will be a puppy, then
perhaps a child.

--
Joe
"Mostly me, mostly you."

Mary Matthews
16-Jul-2007, 08:15 PM
Yeah, I like having dogs. I just have to throw food in a bowl and keep it
full, same with water. And when they're being bad I can throw them outside
or send them upstairs for a time out. Even better, they'll never make my
car insurance go up. :)

Craig
17-Jul-2007, 12:00 AM
That's why I always blame the victims. :)

> It's the same problem that much of American society has today. "It's not
> my fault." It's always the fault of someone/something else. No one wants
> to take responsibility for one's actions.
>
> --
> Joe
> "Mostly me, mostly you."
>

Joseph Marton
17-Jul-2007, 12:12 AM
Craig wrote:

> That's why I always blame the victims. :)

I just blame whoever isn't present. :-)

--
Joe
"Mostly me, mostly you."

Mary Matthews
17-Jul-2007, 02:49 PM
Isn't that kind of along the same lines as assigning work to the folks who
weren't in the meeting? ;)

George
17-Jul-2007, 05:01 PM
Mary Matthews wrote:
> You're right about that one...makes you wonder why they had the kids at
> all.


The seemingly common lack of personal responsibility? I think a lot of
it has to do with the mid-late 20th century idea that "someone" else is
there to be responsible such as government programs and schools etc.



If nothing else, they could have put them up for an open adoption
> where all the costs were covered and they may have made a few bucks.

Mary Matthews
17-Jul-2007, 05:45 PM
Yeah, I kind of like my previous director's idea (he's a pediatrician and
was in charge of our CPS-type team) of making all parents have to get a
license and go through parenting classes before they get to keep their
kids. Great idea, but in reality all it does is make one huge "Nanny
state" out of our government.

Craig
17-Jul-2007, 07:40 PM
Well, individual responsibility only goes so far. Would we want individuals
or companies responible for food safety? Medicine? the Military?

Before the Government got involved, we had child labor, poisoned food and
animal carcasses filled the Chicago river. The problem is/was...that there
is ALWAYS someone else who is responsible...it's just that individuals or
corporations can't be trusted to act in the citizens best interests. (Not
that the Government can, but...you know)


"George" <George@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:sJ5ni.2922$QE3.888@prv-forum2.provo.novell.com...
> Mary Matthews wrote:
>> You're right about that one...makes you wonder why they had the kids at
>> all.
>
>
> The seemingly common lack of personal responsibility? I think a lot of it
> has to do with the mid-late 20th century idea that "someone" else is there
> to be responsible such as government programs and schools etc.
>
>
>
> If nothing else, they could have put them up for an open adoption
>> where all the costs were covered and they may have made a few bucks.

Joseph Marton
17-Jul-2007, 08:41 PM
Craig wrote:

> Before the Government got involved, we had child labor, poisoned food and
> animal carcasses filled the Chicago river.

Thank goodness that's been solved. Now it's just toxic waste from the
BP plant being dropped into Lake Michigan. So I guess things are
better. (?)

--
Joe
"Mostly me, mostly you."

Doug Black
17-Jul-2007, 08:47 PM
Joseph Marton,
>
>> Before the Government got involved, we had child labor, poisoned food
>> and animal carcasses filled the Chicago river.
>
> Thank goodness that's been solved. Now it's just toxic waste from the
> BP plant being dropped into Lake Michigan. So I guess things are
> better. (?)
>

I don't think Craig was saying that things are perfect now, just that
they're better than, say, 100 years ago.

I don't know about you, but I like knowing that my food is being
inspected by someone who doesn't have a financial interest in selling it
to me even if it's contaminated.

Joseph Marton
17-Jul-2007, 08:59 PM
Doug Black > wrote:

> I don't think Craig was saying that things are perfect now, just that
> they're better than, say, 100 years ago.

Well, that's true I guess. Or at the worst case the problems are
different. :-)

> I don't know about you, but I like knowing that my food is being
> inspected by someone who doesn't have a financial interest in selling it
> to me even if it's contaminated.

Yeah, but it's special interests that "donate" money to the people that
are elected, those people in turn appoint people to various agencies
such as the FDA, and then those appointed people hire others to do the
actual work such as inspections. So what does that mean? Hopefully
nothing, but who knows.

--
Joe
"Mostly me, mostly you."

Craig
17-Jul-2007, 09:02 PM
The 2 are not mutually exclusive as you know. When I lived there every few
months there was anew report about some other company dumping their refuse
into the Lake for the last decade or two.

Conversely, you could have pig carcasses, PCBs, dysentery, and salmonella
added to your drinking water.

Of course, there's also the threat of Zebra mussels!


"Joseph Marton" <jmartonNO@SPAMhsemuni.com> wrote in message
news:lX8ni.3089$QE3.1919@prv-forum2.provo.novell.com...
> Craig wrote:
>
>> Before the Government got involved, we had child labor, poisoned food
>> and animal carcasses filled the Chicago river.
>
> Thank goodness that's been solved. Now it's just toxic waste from the BP
> plant being dropped into Lake Michigan. So I guess things are better. (?)
>
> --
> Joe
> "Mostly me, mostly you."

Doug Black
17-Jul-2007, 09:09 PM
Joseph Marton,
> Yeah, but it's special interests that "donate" money to the people that
> are elected, those people in turn appoint people to various agencies
> such as the FDA, and then those appointed people hire others to do the
> actual work such as inspections. So what does that mean? Hopefully
> nothing, but who knows.
>

Again, I don't think anyone is saying the current arrangement is perfect
- just a workable alternative to putting the foxes in charge of the
henhouse.

Craig
17-Jul-2007, 09:14 PM
I suspect that Teddy Roosevelt reacted in large part to the fact that
Americans were voting for Eugene Debs in large numbers. Nothing like a
potential revolution to make the PTB stop putting poop in your water!

(Or haven't you seen "Battleship Potemkin"? :)


"Doug Black" <""dougd otb lack\"@osumc .edu"> wrote in message
news:Cl9ni.3140$QE3.1085@prv-forum2.provo.novell.com...
> Joseph Marton,
>> Yeah, but it's special interests that "donate" money to the people that
>> are elected, those people in turn appoint people to various agencies such
>> as the FDA, and then those appointed people hire others to do the actual
>> work such as inspections. So what does that mean? Hopefully nothing,
>> but who knows.
>>
>
> Again, I don't think anyone is saying the current arrangement is perfect -
> just a workable alternative to putting the foxes in charge of the
> henhouse.
>
>

Doug Black
17-Jul-2007, 09:21 PM
Craig wrote:
> I suspect that Teddy Roosevelt reacted in large part to the fact that
> Americans were voting for Eugene Debs in large numbers. Nothing like a
> potential revolution to make the PTB stop putting poop in your water!
>
> (Or haven't you seen "Battleship Potemkin"? :)
>

I haven't, though I'm familiar with the term "Potemkin Village".

Craig
17-Jul-2007, 09:28 PM
It's a classic from Eisenstein.....but when I watched it recently I was
suprised how long and boring it was in parts. I guess the redacted versions
I watched in Film and Television studies were more enjoyable.


"Doug Black" <""dougd otb lack\"@osumc .edu"> wrote in message
news:dx9ni.3179$QE3.2808@prv-forum2.provo.novell.com...
> Craig wrote:
>> I suspect that Teddy Roosevelt reacted in large part to the fact that
>> Americans were voting for Eugene Debs in large numbers. Nothing like a
>> potential revolution to make the PTB stop putting poop in your water!
>>
>> (Or haven't you seen "Battleship Potemkin"? :)
>>
>
> I haven't, though I'm familiar with the term "Potemkin Village".
>

Joseph Marton
17-Jul-2007, 09:43 PM
Doug Black > wrote:

> Again, I don't think anyone is saying the current arrangement is perfect
> - just a workable alternative to putting the foxes in charge of the
> henhouse.

True. Guess it's the lesser of two evils.

--
Joe
"Mostly me, mostly you."

George
17-Jul-2007, 09:52 PM
Mary Matthews wrote:
> Yeah, I kind of like my previous director's idea (he's a pediatrician and
> was in charge of our CPS-type team) of making all parents have to get a
> license and go through parenting classes before they get to keep their
> kids. Great idea, but in reality all it does is make one huge "Nanny
> state" out of our government.

Some might argue that the problem exists because of the government
inserting itself into everything and being there to "help"

Doug Black
17-Jul-2007, 11:52 PM
George,
>
> Some might argue that the problem exists because of the government
> inserting itself into everything and being there to "help"

Some do.

<biting tongue hard>

Susan
18-Jul-2007, 03:14 AM
George,

> I think a lot of
> it has to do with the mid-late 20th century idea that "someone" else is
> there to be responsible such as government programs and schools etc.

And I see it as simple bad parenting by the parents of the people who have
that attitude. : )

Susan
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